Susan
Welcome to Who We Are Inside, a Cupid Podcast. I'm so glad you're here. Welcome to Who We Are Inside, a Cupid Podcast. I know I said I wasn't going to do introductions before the episodes, and I intend to follow through with that, but there's going to be a couple exceptions, and these next two episodes are two of them. These episodes are two parts of a conversation that I had with Todd Wysong, who is a co-founder of the Positive Painting Project, and before I get into who Todd is and what the Positive Painting Project is, I wanted to offer a trigger warning. For those for whom listening to a conversation about major depressive disorder and suicide does not serve you, please skip over these next two episodes. Please be kind to yourself. Do what you feel you need to do, and not what you feel you should do. So in part one of this two-part series, I am talking to Todd Wysong. He is a co-founder of the Positive Painting Project, which is a community-based nonprofit organization that uses visual art to promote positive mental health and suicide prevention. They believe that art can be a powerful tool for healing and connection, and they're committed to providing opportunities for people of all ages to create and share their own art. And in part one of this series, we get to meet Todd's daughter, Katie. Katie was a 15-year-old artist, student, and activist who was really passionate about bringing awareness and de-stigmatizing mental health. And through meeting Katie, we learn about the origins of this incredible community organization that is spreading positive messages throughout the Pittsburgh community. We have some of these beautiful pieces of art in the Department of PA Studies here at Pitt, and you can see them throughout the greater Pittsburgh community, especially in schools and community centers. This conversation really moved me. It was a really hard conversation, and I think the way that Todd explains heaviness and how he says, the load doesn't get any lighter, you just get stronger. And I thought that was so beautiful. So that's just a little taste of the things that we talk about. I think that you'll really get a lot out of this incredible, beautiful story. I'm excited for you to meet Todd. I'm excited for you to meet Katie. And let's dive in.

Adriana
Welcome to our podcast, Who We Are Inside, a Cupid podcast. Today, we are so lucky to be talking to Todd Wysong. Todd and Alyssa are the founders of the Positive Painting Project. The Positive Painting Project is a community-based organization that uses visual art to promote mental health awareness and suicide prevention. They believe that art can be a powerful tool for healing and connection, and they are committed to providing opportunities for people of all ages to create and share their own art. It's such a pleasure to have you today here, Todd.

Todd
Thank you for having me.

Adriana
So, Todd, welcome. For our listeners, will you share where the Positive Painting Project came from?

Todd
Well, it started with our daughter, Katie, who was always a real artsy kid, always liked, you know, she was always drawing, sketching, painting. We were able to get her some art classes, and it was really her preferred method of expression. And so when she was in 7th grade, we noticed she was having trouble concentrating, she was having trouble reading, doing reading assignments, and really couldn't figure out what the issue was, other than just thinking it's middle school and her having difficulties, everything from, you know, did she sleep enough the night before and everything you try to think of for that. And as we went through these different things, doctor's appointments, like regular checkups, she ended up being diagnosed with major depressive disorder. And it was at that point, you know, it was at the end of 7th grade, she ended up taking time off school to attend the STAR Clinic, actually right here in Oakland, which is run by Western Psych. It's a wonderful program, by the way, if anyone is struggling. I couldn't recommend it enough. Even as adults or as survivors, they have programs for that as well. But so she was treated, and she was doing very well afterwards and, you know, had the rest of the summer. And then when she started back in 8th grade, she really leaned into advocacy and trying to help friends. I think it made her feel good that she knew some of these little tools and stuff that she had learned. And it's middle school. Everyone is struggling. And especially, you know, we're talking like, this is like in COVID times too, when there was isolation on top of it. And, you know, they were doing kids, like odd and even number days going to school. So not everyone was able to see their friends based on the first letter of their last name and whether or not they were in school with them that day. So she, I think, enjoyed being able to help her friends when they were struggling and, you know, to try to get through not just that time, but to get through their struggles. Then she saw there was a meme or an article where students and teachers and some parents and PTO had painted the walls and in the restrooms and everything, all these positive messages to just surround the students rather than them just being white walls, which I think a lot of, you know, school restrooms and hallways sometimes are. And the idea of like the students actually being a part of creating these messages of hope and mental health awareness, suicide prevention. And that was her idea to do it at her school. We go to Fox Chapel. And so when she was in eighth grade, she reached out to her favorite art teacher who was Nancy Goldberg at the time. I know a lot of your listeners probably know the name because she's got, she's a very busy person. And so, sorry, go ahead.

Susan
I have a confession. I was her student too.

Todd
Oh, okay.

HOST
So when I was on your website and I just saw her name and her face, I was like, that really rings a bell. And I mean, you can't forget her. I remember she was one of my first teachers who said that her name is Ms. Goldberg. And she was very intentional about that Ms. And I was like, that's when I first learned about, you know, female power and all kinds of stuff. So just that really brings me back. I'm a Fox Chapel grad and we now live in O'Hara. So I did not realize that your program and your family are neighbors.

Todd
Yeah, she was a big part of it, actually, of helping us get this whole thing started. And it was she who Katie reached out to, and I believe her guidance counselor as well, saying, hey, is there some way we can do this? I think this is cool. And both, you know, emailed her back and said, yeah, this is a great idea. Let's figure out how to get this started. And then before anything could get started, COVID shut everything down. That's when, like, schools were out and everything at that point. So, and as we know, I mean, the isolation that went with COVID, it didn't do anyone's mental health any favors. And the struggle started again. And one night while we were out, we lost her. And so you try to find ways to bring meaning to just a tragedy like that. And on the heels of it, we started a scholarship program under the name of the Katie Whysong Art for Hope Initiative. And that's actually the name of the umbrella, 501C3 nonprofit, that covers the scholarship program, the Positive Painting Project. We did a telephone in the wind over in Millvale. And so this project was her idea to start with. And now we're just trying to carry on what she started to begin with. And it started, we, you know, we're just going to do what she wanted to do. We were going to do the, you know, put these, well, it evolved. We were talking about Nancy Goldberg. So it was her idea because of COVID, you can't have, you know, you're not going to be able to get, you know, adults and a whole bunch of people right next to each other painting walls. And painting walls and, you know, so it was Nancy's idea saying, well, you could hold this outside if you were able to bring it to people. So it became putting it on canvases instead. And the idea developed into, you know, just screen printing the messages over top of paint, you know, paintings that other people did because that's sort of where it came from to begin with. It was going to be, you know, students, teachers, whoever wasn't comfortable doing actual artwork would just do the background paintings. And then it were the artists that were going to paint the messages actually. So it ends up being the same thing. So now we screen print on top of it. We have six different messages for mental health awareness. It is hold on to hope. No feeling is final. It's okay to not be okay. Never ever give up. You matter. And I always forget one. No feeling is final. Sorry. Hold on to hope. You matter. You're not alone was the other one. No feeling is final. It's okay to not be okay. And never ever give up. And so we thought we were just going to do the middle school like Katie wanted to do. And then we had a bunch of paintings left over. So we reached out to the high school, and Dr. Howard was more than on board with us bringing them there. It was still summertime. Went around, put them up in the high school, and we thought that was it. We'd be done. And then it wasn't long after that, Shaler High School reached out and they wanted to hold a similar event and have their students paint them. And then it was Hampton, and then it was North Hills, and here we are three years later, and we're in, I think, 44 schools in 38 districts now in the Pittsburgh area. My hometown of Johnstown, I actually just delivered canvases to a teacher friend of mine there after we screen printed them last time. They had 200 of them at their middle school, and people just keep reaching out. And while the program is great and we love it, I think it's more of an example of the need for mental health and awareness and just the need for activities like this, for people that are struggling to feel like they're doing something and not just that but to feel like something is being done, that someone's paying attention and that things are hopefully changing because it's the stigma, is the idea, to break that down, is to not just have these positive phrases surrounding you. It's to have, which they are great, but it's also to spark a conversation hopefully, to get people to talk about their struggles, to get people to feel less alone with mental health struggles. And the example I always give is for the idea that there is a stigma about it. If you went to the doctor or the dentist, no one would have any problem. No one would second guess it. If you were there for your physical health, if you were at temple or at church for your spiritual health, people would smile and think that's great. But the minute you say, I have a therapy appointment or I was at a therapist, the question ends up being more often than not, why, what's wrong? And that's what needs to change. Therapy appointments, I believe, should be just like your doctor checkup, just like your dentist. Twice a year you just go get checked up, and if there's nothing wrong, then I'll see you in six months. But these aren't things that your PCP is going to be able to handle. Yeah, so that's all about that. I feel like I went on a really long time.

Susan
No, thank you so much for providing your story and Katie's story and just for sharing all of that because I think that without knowing that, I just think knowing that will make this conversation a lot more meaningful for our listeners and for everyone. I remember seeing them at the community center, the Laurie Ann West Community Center. I'm always a little bit weary. I grew up in Fox Chapel. There's a lot of interesting opinions and things that go around in Fox Chapel and what it means to come from Fox Chapel. So when I walked in that community center, I was like, oh, we'll see how this place feels. And I saw those paintings. I had no idea they were connected with your organization. And I was like, okay, I could be a member here. They truly made me feel like I belonged because if somebody was going to recognize the fundamental truth of mental health as just a human truth, that's a place that I could feel like I was meant to be in. So the power of what you are doing cannot be understated.

Todd
Thank you. Yeah, the ones at the community center, that was Nadine Otrowski that reached out. And she was the manager there at the time and just wanted them up on the walls there. She had seen them around. After we hold the school ones, the paintings that the students do at schools always go back to the schools. The ones that we do at festivals, those are the ones we typically reach out, help donate. If anyone wants them, they end up in community centers, community spaces, some restaurants and counseling centers, things like that. And Laurie Ann West was one of them that reached out and said, yeah, we'd like a set or two. I think what she actually said is I'll take as many as you have. So, yeah, we ended up there putting a bunch of them up around there. We talked about actually having an event there in one of the community spaces, but we're still in the arranging part of that.

Susan
I have a follow-up question, and I'm sorry. I try not to take up too much space in conversations. That's like one of the things I'm working on, but I'm failing right now because there's so many things going through my head. When you do one of these events, and I know you're not able to be present at all of them, but what do you see? What are you witnessing? If you can paint for us, not to use a really on-the-nose metaphor, but paint for us a picture of what that looks like and feels like and what's happening during the actual painting itself.

Todd
Well, we have school events. We have public events. The school events are typically because they have sign-ups for these things. So it's a little different. They already are familiar with the project, a lot of them, and they've been made familiar with it so that they know what it is before they sign up. But the ones with the students, I wish Alisa was here. She's so much better at explaining this sort of stuff than I was, but she's a teacher herself, so unfortunately she's at work right now. But the students who do the paintings there, the connection that goes with it, the connection that goes between them and I feel like every now and then someone will write on the back which phrase they specifically want, and we love the idea that that message has connected with them somehow. It's also nice, I think, when these paintings come back and they see these paintings go up on the walls and they see which phrase picked them and picked their painting. And I hope that that at least sticks with them a little bit or remembers this phrase because they're not our phrases. They're catchphrases that are for to help that people use for these situations. You matter. You are not alone. Never give up. It's okay to not be okay. And now the festivals, people tend to just stumble on us and they don't know what this is at first. So they want to ask what it is, and a lot of times it's people that are working in the mental health field, but a lot of times it's people who are struggling. And we've had people talk to us about how just us being there at that time is how much that has helped them. And the other thing is, like Alisa always says, it's a mindful experience to sit down and paint and to just the quiet that takes over you no matter what else is going on, just that focus to be able to do that, which is great for your mental health. And then what you create, once it's displayed, ideally is good for the mental health of other people as well. People that walk by and see these things. So that's, I guess, the long and the short of it.

Adriana
So, of course, I admire you and Alisa so much, otherwise I wouldn't be saying that here. But sometimes I wonder, where did your strength come from to be able to overcome everything that happened and pay forward to others who may be struggling with mental health? Because this is a huge task.

Todd
You know, I've never been good at public speaking. I've never been someone like a talk about your feelings type person. And I honestly think some of it comes from Katie. And without sounding strange, I mean, it just feels like, you know, the night we lost her, the night I was doing CPR on her, waiting for paramedics to get there. I mean, I feel like not long after that, that depression crawled out of her and crawled into me. And this, I mean, I could sit here and say, this project saved my life, probably. It was crippling the first couple months, living without her. It was Alisa, Nancy Goldberg, Mackenzie Seymour, Etna Prince Circus. They were the ones that got this project started to begin with for the purpose of putting these signs up in the middle school and doing something. It was probably another three or four months before I was able to be directly involved with any of these projects without, you know, no one wants to see a 47-year-old man crying in public. So I would, you know, keep myself at a distance, trying to help the ways that I can. But since then, it's just something I guess you throw yourself into. And, you know, there were a lot of high school students and elementary school students that had to listen to me do my version of what public speaking is supposed to be. And it's just something I guess you get a little bit better at as time goes by. But it's still not something I love doing. But it feels like a call too, you know, people that do community service, people that, you know, I grew up. My mother was very involved with the church. My dad was always very involved with the local volunteer fire department. And I never knew it. But I guess, I mean, this has just become my thing, our thing for our family. And it's, I mean, this project, as much as we miss Katie, this is the greatest gift I think any girl has ever given her dad for this scenario, to be able to survive afterwards. And, you know, we just, what I feel like is that we're, every single person that this project somehow helps or speaks to is Katie being able to still help people and reach people, which meant the world to her. And it means everything to us.

John
It sounds like you're, you know, able to emote more and, you know, express your feelings more. Is that something you kind of learned? Is that something that's kind of new? Did you change from the experience?

Todd
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, I mean, you don't go through something like that without it having a fundamental impact on you. And I have to credit just, you know, therapy, medicine, or I couldn't be sitting here today. It's, you know, I was never on any, I wasn't even on blood pressure medicine or on anything before this. But it, you know, starts off, it's so important and crucial when someone goes through a traumatic experience to get professional help as quickly as possible because grief only becomes more complicated the more you hold it down in and try to deal with it on your own. And we have to, you know, I have to thank Alisa's brother, John Dick, who reached out to a bunch of friends at the beginning, again, trying to figure out something to do, and had Ragna Jericho from North Hills Counseling, who's a grief, like a specialty is grief counseling, at our house two days after we lost Katie. And she was already in the neighborhood because she was speaking to the Girl Scout troop that Katie was a member of, and she was out there speaking to them that day. And then she came to us and sat at our dining room table for two hours with us just discussing all of these things and at least giving us, you know, a vague version of a playbook on what was going to happen. I mean, I remember, I don't remember everything from that day or those first couple months, but I remember her telling us that, you know, get ready for a whole year of firsts. You're going to have her first, you're going to have your first Father's Day, your first Mother's Day, your first Easter, your first Christmas. And you've got a whole year of these things coming up. And when you're grieving to that degree, and just the community, how they came around us and took care of us over that time, just put us on their shoulders, I felt like. And, you know, Alisa's brought it up a couple times, and we've mentioned it, maybe moving out of that. We live by Kerr Elementary in O'Hara. And possibly selling the house, moving somewhere else, downsizing. And my answer is always the same thing. I can't even imagine, you know, leaving this community. It's just been incredible. And I can't say enough about what it means to people who are grieving to have that kind of support. Now, conversely, when you get into that second year, that third year, it's every bit as difficult, but it's different because you start to feel like people have forgotten about it. And it's natural. People's lives move on. And they have things to focus on. They have, you know, right now, as much as we go on social media to post things for the project, I try to stay off of it altogether because all her friends are graduating. All of her friends are seniors this year. They're all going to the prom, and Katie isn't. And it's hard. I remember the first time we've held events like painting events in honor of her birthday the last two years. And it was last year that one of her friends showed up, and I was like, oh, is your mom here too? She said, no, I drove, and it just hit me. And, like, they're arriving now. She was 15 when we lost her; had just turned 15, and she was in ninth grade. So it's, you know, and they say it. You know, in the support groups, that's why everyone describes their lost loved ones as, you know, forever 21, forever whatever age they lost, because that's where their story ended. And so it's our goal, I guess, to keep that from being the end of her story, as long as she can keep helping people, hopefully. And as this project grows, it's not something we've really steered much at all. Like my wife, Alisa, always says, this thing just has a life of its own. It really does. It's evolved into different things so many times. We had a student, Don Alexander, out in Carnegie, who held a project with his elementary age students. At the time, we weren't reaching, like we weren't really working with elementary schools because, like, no feeling is final, it's okay to not be okay. We kind of thought, like, those might be a little too mature for elementary school kids. And then we sort of just realized and learned that that's exactly what this project is about. It's a teaching moment. This is an opportunity to talk about what these phrases mean with these kids and give them the tools before they hit middle school and the real troubles start. And like Alisa always says, there is no... I haven't yet to speak to one person who says, I love middle school because, you know, they start off in that small group and all your friends, and then you head to middle school and everyone just sort of wants to split and go their own way with these new friends. And it can be very lonely and very isolating.

Music
♪ I still have stories to tell ♪ ♪ I feel ♪ ♪ I still have stories to tell ♪